Hello. Oh, why can't I hear you? Um, yeah, give me one second. Nice, nice to meet both of you. Let me, uh, get my—

one sec.

How you guys doing today?

Well, thanks. Good. One, you guys are Can you, can you hear us?

Can you hear us now?

I think that's a no. Can we hear you now? Are we good now?

We, we can hear you.

Yeah, we can hear you.

But I don't think you can hear us.

I think that's true.

This should sound better and we should be good. Yes.

I don't know, you tell us. Can you hear us?

Yes, yes. You know what, uh, have you guys seen Episode 1, Star Wars?

Yes.

Yeah, where they're, where they're like, they're like in, in that area where they're like, we have to wait with their lightsabers, and it's like, they're like, oh, it's like so much like tension from them waiting. So I don't know, I felt like, I felt like I needed a lightsaber in that moment. How you guys doing?

I'll just play Duel of Fates in the background. Um, good. Yeah, how are you? Uh, it's pretty good. Ryan, right?

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Nice to meet you.

Likewise, happy to meet both of you for sure. Um, I totally, totally jumped on your message, Tally. Is that right, Tally? Did I say your name right? All right, cool. Yeah, because, because this is like something I specialize in like big time because I was, I was doing all this AI SEO stuff before, or sorry, this SEO stuff before AI was a thing. And so, so now it's like the game, the game's different now for sure. But it really depends. I mean, you know, if you, if you have like a background, you know, it's really, it's really, it's really helpful, right? So, so like, is this, is this like a, is this like a nice to have thing? Or is this like a, like a hot priority for you guys?

Maybe we can just start with like quick intros. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, happy to, happy to answer some questions. It'd be great to get to know you better.

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Yeah, I can go first. I'm one of the co-founders here. We got started about 6 years ago. And excited to learn more about you and how you work.

Cool. Yeah.

And I'm, I'm Cooper. I work as a producer here and I do like our job clip audio and podcast production, but I also do like social content and handle the strategy for that.

Very cool. Ryan Murphy. So I am an electrical engineer by degree and I was in corporate for 10 years as a marketing operations manager. And in 2024, I left corporate and, uh, went out on my own. And so, and so that, that can sometimes, um, be a double-edged sword because, because I, I haven't been in corporate in so long that, that like this, this doing the intros thing is like so important, right? And, and I, I just kind of, uh, you know, I just, I tend to jump right into it. So, so thanks for your patience with that.

Yeah, yeah, no, of course. Um, so yeah, happy to answer your question, and then of course we would love to learn more about you.

Um, yeah.

You know, this is like, this is important for us. It's a priority. We're going to make a decision. We're already investing in this, but it's definitely a priority.

Very cool. Okay. What kind of things have you guys tried already or maybe nothing yet?

So we have, we've done content marketing probably for about 9 months. We post on LinkedIn, we publish blog articles. Those are basically the things we do, Cooper. Anything else?

Yeah, the social content, the blog post has been kind of an ongoing thing, but further social content has been more of a recent push.

So, yeah. And what, what's the— oh, oh, sorry, Talia. Go ahead.

And, uh, and in February, um, content marketing really started to work for us. Um, and, uh, around that time, Cooper came on board. We had a transition. We actually paused our content marketing. And so now we're like restarting it and trying to be thoughtful about the best way to do that.

So that's great news that, that it was successful, right? So, so what, what, how did you measure success there? Like, like what did that look like?

Inbound discos that turned into closed deals.

Nice. Nice. Revenue. Okay. Yeah. Cool. What was it tracked to the specific like blog article or post?

No, we don't have like, we didn't have good tracking, so we don't know. We know what articles are they're trending, but we can't say like this deal came to that from that blog post.

Okay, got it, got it.

We've incorporated better tracking now, but yeah, at that time it was more correlation.

So got it, got it. Cool. Um, okay, nice, nice. I, I have, I have like a million questions because a lot of times when I, when I look at helping people with this, they, they've, they've never had any success with it, which is not your situation, which is, which, because you've had, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Because you've had success with it, there's, there's so much more opportunity to like grow it and like, you know, make like kind of add fuel to the fire, so to speak. Right. What, what now in contrast, like what hasn't been working so well?

Well, we stopped posting to Facebook. We stopped posting to LinkedIn and stopped doing blog posts for about like a month. And so now we're just restarting. I think we restarted last week, 2 weeks ago or something like that.

Did you notice any like specific effects from not doing it for a month?

Yeah, I mean, our traffic went down and we had less inbound discos coming in that said, hey, we found you on Google or LinkedIn.

Understood. Okay, cool, cool. And so, so Is it just to get it re— like to get what you were already doing restarted, or is there a, is there a thought that there, there may be like a different strategy you want to pursue, or, or is it just turning it back on again essentially?

Well, I think we— yeah, go ahead, Cooper.

It's all good. I just don't want to talk over you. I'm like raising my hand. Yeah, I feel like, you know, we're obviously restarting the strategy, but just like also looking for ways to scale it or, you know, maybe other ways that would be even better, I guess, just looking to like further scale the strategy, I would say.

Cool, cool. Um, and so I, I heard a— I, I read, tallying your message a little bit, that you like, you were looking at some specific agencies, but like they weren't really hitting the mark, I guess. Like, what— like, can you tell me about that?

Yeah, we, uh, talked to an agency, but they were an annual contract Okay. And I think we're like much more interested in starting with something that's shorter term, even if it's like quarterly.

Yeah.

Just to see, you know, how does it work? What's the content like? Things like that.

Sure, sure. And that, I mean, I think, I think you guys have, have come to the right person because I've been hired before exclusively because I'm not an agency. I'm just like a guy, right? And like, you'd work with me directly. I don't, I don't really outsource anything to like overseas or anything like that. Um, if there's something that you need, you would ask me and I would do it, right? I mean, you know, like, so, so that, that is, um, that is something that, that, you know, in, in addition to the quarterly payment, right, which is totally cool, we can, I can, I can definitely work with something like that. Um, that's something that other people have liked in particular. So I looked at your website, really cool, really impressive. I like the P logo. That's nice in the footer. But yeah, like, so what made GEO in particular a priority? Did you guys notice like competitors showing up on AI search more recently or like how, or what was the thought there?

I think the thought is that that's, you know, optimizing for geo has been a relatively new thing. So we're not even really showing up in a lot of those, you know, AI overviews. So figuring out further ways to get us, you know, into the AI overviews for the search is a definite priority for us.

Okay, cool. Cool. So, Tali, you mentioned seeing the content, right? And after this call, I can send you some links of people that I work with because their blogs are public, of course, and you guys can see the quality for yourself. But yeah, like, do you have any content today that was made with GEO in mind and maybe what that looks like?

No.

No? Okay. Okay. Okay. Your articles today on your site?

I would say there's some rough GEO stuff we've been doing just with the last couple of blog posts, but it's not been like It's just been from what we've learned internally, not like working with, I guess.

Okay. Okay.

Cause I'm looking at the blog posts from on my other screen here, like April 13th.

Yeah. The one we posted today.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. Is, is, is this written by AI? I always look for em dashes, you know what I mean? But, uh, or is it written by a human?

It's a human. He does like the em dash, but I've like gone back and forth about removing them, but they, aesthetically look good and I'm torn.

So I know I, I, it's like, it's like AI ruined the end dash.

Yeah, they really did. And I, you know, I've thought about going in and removing them if that would actually affect visibility for stuff. That's easy to do. But yeah.

Yeah. You know, something else that I recently realized is that even if like the, the end dash obviously is a huge tell, right? Of course. There's also something that I've uncovered is that, that AI uses something that AI has determined is called AI connective tissue, where it's like almost invisible to the human eye to figure this, that, you know, that it's there. You can remove all the em dashes you want, but then there's also, there's also like the way it starts sentences, the way it ends sentences is like very like uniform and mechanical and not in, and hard to detect unless you're looking, looking for it. But The good news is that from Google's own documentation on search visibility, it's, it's said from Google, not, not from some blog, right? This is like in the developer manual that Google does not punish for AI-generated content. It says as long as the content is useful to the end user, then Google doesn't care who wrote it or made it. So are you guys looking to, to keep the human writer and just have him have more geo-type ideas in place, or, or, or, or what do you, what do you think good looks like here?

Ryan, if you don't mind, I'd love to turn it around because we're doing a bunch of these calls and we, I want to make sure we learn a little bit about you. And since we only have 15 minutes, it'd be great if you could, if we could turn this around and you could tell us a little bit about how you work and, yeah, how do you figure out the right strategy and all that. I don't want to get to the end of the call and like, you've learned about us, but we don't know anything about you.

Okay, yeah. Um, did you, uh, well, so just how I, how I work? Yeah, sure. Uh, happy to tell more about that. Um, I'm a solo, um, operator, solo practitioner. Um, you know, where, where, like, I'm, I'm hesitant to say, uh, consultant because consultants just talk, they don't actually do the work, right? So I'm, I'm, I'm I part consultant, part hands-on keyboard work, right? So, so I guess how I, how it works, I guess if we were to work together is I would invoice you guys and you would save a ton of money from, from hiring an employee to do it because, because there's not that fully burdened cost of, of like hiring somebody. I'm not sure if you guys are hiring a role for this or if there's some other thing you you imagined here. But yeah, typically I just, I work one-on-one with, with, with people like you two, and we figure out what you guys need, and I, and I get it done.

And so what would you suggest we do?

Like, just, just in general, or like, or like, yeah, the specific?

Okay, exactly. Like, what do you normally do for your clients? Like, what are they having you do for them?

Well, there's a variety of different scopes, like some people I do go-to-market outbound stuff, some other clients I do this blog stuff. So, but a lot of times they're starting from nothing, they're starting from like they don't have a blog already, or they have a blog and it's not very good. But I'm looking at your blog now on this other screen here. It looks great, right? How are you guys doing in the way of like backlinks? You guys familiar with backlinks?

Yes. Yep. We know what backlinks are. We've like chosen to ignore them.

Okay. What drove that? Because that's a huge part of like SEO visibility.

We were told it wasn't important for SEO.

Okay.

And we have a lot of links to our customers' career sites because we host their career sites. So our domain is also already pretty good. Okay.

Okay. Got it. Yeah, because I would probably push back on that. They're not important for geo because, because it's, it's the more, the more that AI finds on different sites that talk about you guys, like it's going to reinforce in the model that, that it is something that it should recommend.

And like, what would a backlink strategy look like for us? Like, if you were to invest in backlinks, how would you, how would you go about that?

It's a great question. So, so basically, I, I built my own tool that does this where it searches, it, it uses backlinks that are domain ranking 45 or higher. Domain ranking guys might already know about this, but it's like, it's like how quality the website is that we're linking back from. And so every, every backlink that I secure for people is at least 45 and up, whereas like the news sites or like HubSpot or salesforce.com would be in the high 90s. And a brand new website would be like 0 to 5. So 45 and up is like an authoritative site, they're talking about what you guys do, then that's a big boost for GEO, right? I've never heard anyone say backlinks aren't important for GEO. That's a first for sure. But yeah, like, and there are essentially reporters out there. There used to be a tool called Help a Reporter Out, HARO, that got shut down. And now there's Now there's different services that are very similar. And they're looking for articles all the time to, you know, to write about. And so what Puck does, you know, that would be an answer to a question that a reporter would want to write about. And then you guys would be featured in that article, which has, which I've used this for myself. And it's, it's gotten me in HubSpot and in Zapier's blog using the same process. Got it.

So you would like learn about Puck and then suggest us as answers to reporters, basically.

Correct.

Yeah. It's almost like an influencer-esque strategy, but like in the space that we're in.

Exactly. And then, and then as AI searches the web for some query that somebody types in, it would, it would see more Puck around the internet.

Yeah. Just diversifying where we appear versus like our own references.

Yeah, exactly.

Got it. And then, yeah, beyond that, what else, what else would you expect to do or do for us, or what do you typically do for B2B SaaS companies that's most impactful?

Well, the most impactful thing right now that I'm doing for a lot of people is they've figured out that like cold calling and cold emailing for sales is like kind of dead now with like how much agentic stuff is happening. So what I'm able to do is use AI for, for them to figure out how to know which of their prospects are going to show up at this particular in-person event. And then another most impactful thing is also helping after a prospect has shown interest, helping them get down pipeline to closed one. And I have a case study on that if you guys would like to see it. But those two things, they're the most impactful right now, but they're not related to like geo and blogging. It's more like the internal process kind of stuff that helps the sales team sell more and sell faster. Interesting. Yeah, I, and I use the same things myself too that I built. Also, really cool thing that is almost, we're almost done with it, is I'm, I applied and got partially approved, I guess, for the Claude Partner Network. So I'll be an official Claude code developer. Backed by the Anthropic partner network, essentially. So I applied to their network and they liked my initial application. And then I think there's one more gate I have to pass for, you know, I think there's like a client reference gate or something like that.

And what does that mean?

So Anthropic, like, do you guys use Claude, the Claude AI tool? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So Anthropic made Claude and then they recent, like super recently, we're talking like maybe less than a month ago, Anthropic launched a partner network that you have to apply to and it's extremely difficult to get into because you have to submit case studies, you have to show that you use Claude in your everyday client work, which I do. And then they analyze your, I guess your LinkedIn and your project work and determine if you're like a Claude-approved developer. And so I got past the first round, which is—

But I mean, what does that mean for us that you would be a Claude-approved developer? Like, why does that matter to us?

Oh yeah, yeah. So a lot of people that you might talk to, they might say they're very good at AI and stuff like that, but this would be a third-party kind of validation, a trust signal, if you will, that if you go with me, you're not going to be like wasting your time with somebody who doesn't doesn't actually have the skills to do what you guys need to do to move the needle, essentially.

Got it. Yeah, cool.

So it's like a certification of sorts. Okay.

Yeah, you were referencing case studies. I would love to see some of your case studies, by the way.

Yeah, sure.

And yeah, just like you know, the results you've given companies in that regard.

Yeah, this one actually touches into the, um, GEO stuff too, because— so that's the link I dropped in the chat there. That's one case study. There are more. I can provide more, but, but, uh, but I also have like demos of like apps that I built too that, that are purpose-built for the companies that, that ask for them, more like scoring prospects and, you know, figuring out if this is a Tier A account, Tier B account, Tier C account so that they can prioritize their outreach, things like that. I mean, there's, there's, you know, I'm like a— I can build pretty much anything. So whatever you guys need done, like, like, what does it mean for you guys? If there's a problem that you guys have or some kind of inefficiency, you know, I'm an engineer by degree, so I can come in and essentially solve any problem that you can solve with software, GEO being one of them. But there's a lot more than that. And, you know, I try to keep its scope pretty narrowly because, you know, we're all asking about this GEO stuff. But if we're like, what is it like working with Ryan? It'd be like, we can ask Ryan to build anything and then it just works.

I would, I'm gonna explore this case study more. So when you're saying build anything, what would like, I don't know, like give me like an example of something that I guess recently, cuz it sounds like more it's like bespoke things you're building, correct?

Yeah. I mean, it just, it just, it just depends on what the client needs. Like, like for example, like, most recent thing that was extremely impactful for a pharmaceutical client that I work with. They're actually in the, in the media space, but they exclusively talk about pharmaceuticals and things like that. So they wanted to show how many MDs, how many physicians, how many doctors were in their audience, because they sell sponsorship deals essentially. And so they're like, hey, hey, Ryan, we have 8 LinkedIn pages for our, for our, for each of our podcasts, things like that. We have, we have 8 LinkedIn show pages, each with several thousand followers on each one. LinkedIn doesn't let you take these followers off of LinkedIn. They, they're stuck on the platform because they don't want you taking your followers elsewhere, I suppose. But, um, I'm also a data engineer, so I was able to get 32,000 profiles off of LinkedIn and then have AI scrape each one of them, each one of the 32,000, took many, many hours, probably 30 hours for AI to actually do this, and then determined how many of their listeners were actually physicians, which helps them secure more revenue, more sponsorship deals, things like that, which is like, that there's not a tool to do that. So I had to build something custom for them. Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah. So whatever you can imagine, we can build it.

And did you build the, the like HARO replacement?

I don't know what that's called, but I, I did not build that replacement, but I, I use the replacement in, in my, in my workflow to get backlinks. Yeah. Yeah.

Got it.

Got it.

Okay. How does pricing work?

Great question. So how I— how someone much smarter than me told me, uh, told me a cool, a cool, cool way to look at this is that if you had— if you were to hire me as a full-time employee, like a, like a go-to-market engineer, which is really my title, or like a forward-deployed engineer as they say at Palantir, that engineer would have a salary, okay? If we look at what the first month, what that salary would be for, for an engineer title. My pricing would be half of that because you don't have to pay for benefits or whatever. So there's just half of that. And then what I would do would be all of the things that you'd expect a go-to-market engineer or a forward-deployed engineer to accomplish in that first month. So if there's 5 things you'd want a newly onboarded employee to do, then I would do all those things, and then it would be half.

I don't know, I don't know what that amount is. So, cause we're not, we haven't looked at hiring a forward deployed engineer.

So, oh, okay. Well, yeah.

What's just, is there a different, is there like a number for, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like typical engagement is between, I would say $4,000 to $8,000 a month, but it can vary widely. I mean, there's, there's a few that are under that. And then so people use you to like solve a problem.

But not, they're not like kind of, you're not working with people for like a year basically.

Oh no, no. My longest running client's 4 years by now.

Got it. Okay.

And they enjoy the flexibility of being able to cancel anytime. They just don't.

Got it.

Okay.

Great. I don't think I have any other questions. Cooper, do you have anything else?

Yeah, I'm good for now. I want to just explore these case studies.

Thanks so much, Ryan.

Yeah.

Was there a minimum contract length? I don't know if I missed that.

Minimum would be quarterly.

Gotcha.

Yeah. I mean, and the maximum too. We just do quarterly.

Got it.

We can, yeah, we can start with a month if you guys don't like it and cancel or, you know. Cool.

Thanks so much. Really nice to meet you, Ryan. Sorry about that.

Yeah, thank you so much.

Have a good one.

Sure. You too. Bye. Catch you later.